The Fleetwood Heritage Leisure Trust have confirmed that notice has been given to remove the trams from its collection which are currently stored at Kirkham Prison by the end of the year. Far from most announcements of an imminent release however, this may not be such good news for the trams involved as the decision places a question mark over their future survival.
Two FHLT-owned vehicles have been languishing at the prison since the winter of 2011/12 when many of the surplus trams left Blackpool for pastures new. The affected vehicles are Brush Railcoach 621 and Centenary car 641. There are no known plans for the future of either car and neither have received any significant attention since leaving their native tramway. Not only will a new location have to be found to store them, but also the required funds to pay for them to be transported to any new home would have to be found by an organisation which has been rather strapped for cash since its inception, casting further doubts over their futures.
It has been indicated that, due to this situation, the Trust is now looking to review its strategies and consideration will be given towards disposal of the trams, which could potentially see 621 and 641 find a third owner. Although both are pioneers of their respective types, re-homing them if required could be difficult however: the two classes are already more than adequately represented in the Blackpool heritage tram collection, and the various other preservation groups have all had plenty of opportunities already to acquire Brush and Centenary cars, with the former class being particularly abundant at locations as varied as Crich, Manchester and Birkenhead.
Although not directly mentioned by the Trust, privately owned Towing car 673 which is unofficially part of their collection is also currently housed at Kirkham Prison and will therefore presumably also have to be moved or risk being scrapped. The upper deck of an Edinburgh tram was also acquired by the FHLT some time ago and transported to the prison grounds, although little has been said about this since its arrival. Another potential blow to this group concerns Jubilee car 761. Although safely housed undercover at Rigby Road, the temporary storage agreement for this unique tram is due to expire next year and so it too may well need to be re-homed, again at considerable cost to its owners. It is naturally hoped that serious consideration will be given to a permanent transfer of ownership of 761 to the newly formed Blackpool Heritage Trust to ensure its survival and potentially pave the way for a future return to service on its home system. Unlike the other FHLT cars, 761 would fill a massive gap (in more ways than one!) in the Blackpool collection and would undoubtedly be a much appreciated asset to the heritage fleet.
Although the loss of any historic tramcar is always sad, it is probably time to accept that at least some of the Fleetwood Heritage Leisure Trust’s collection are almost certainly doomed to a date with the cutter’s torch. Unless any individuals with a particular fondness for the trams at Kirkham is willing to come forward and either provide the required funds to move them, or possibly buy them and arrange for them to be re-housed, it is difficult to envisage a positive outcome when the cars are evicted at the end of 2014. The Trust must now decide where its priorities lie, and as noble as its original aims may have been, the changing landscape of tramcar preservation has rendered their initial proposals somewhat irrelevant. It may well be that the best contribution some of its tram can make to the preservation movement as a whole would be to provide spare parts for other trams, and hopefully if any difficult decisions have to be made then the trams affected will be made available to other groups and individuals either for this purpose or to be preserved.
If crich are still interested, I think crich should try and go for 641. As 621 is the prototype of the brush cars, I do think it should be saved.
I doubt that Crich are ‘still’ interested in a Centenary car, after all they had chance of the more original 648 and turned it down, and as they often point out there is nowhere to put it!
As for 621, I too would love it to be saved but realistically I’m struggling to think of anywhere it could go. I suppose one possibility could be Beamish although with a number of major projects in the pipeline it would probably be a case of shoving it to the back and leaving it for the forseeable future. I suspect what happens next will ultimately depend on whether the FHLT are more concerned about the trams being saved, or about getting some financial return on them as a high selling price would be a huge deterrent to most/all potential preservationists.
To “still” interest Crich in the centenary car, which will look good with 762, they will need more depot space to make room to keep new additions.
But they haven’t had funding for one.
I’m sure if they wanted a Centenary car that badly, it would happen… there are other ways of making space besides building a new depot!
It was always a ludicrous idea to “preserve” a complete class of tram, as was attempted with the centenary cars in particular. All that such situations do is to drastically reduce the supply of spares which are inevitably going to be required and mostly are not available off the shelf as new parts.
641 to Crich and 761 to the Blackpool Heritage fleet are obvious and desirable moves, and while I understand the wish to preserve 621 as the class pioneer, given the number of the type already preserved elsewhere and the limited funds and accomodation available, commentators need to consider that it’s survival may only be possible at the expense of another making way for it. If I were one of the other preservation groups I would stick with the example I’d already invested time and money in.
The rest of the FHLT trams don’t really offer anything significant and frankly will best serve the preservation movement as a whole by yielding a supply of spares…
Unfortunately, the group has time after time demonstrated that they are not in tune with the vital enthusiast audience. Sadly we have to recognise that ultimately they offered false hope for the future of the trams they acquired…
Ken – there was never an intention to preserve all the Centenary cars. Only 2 were intentionally perserved (641 and 648, later 642 adding to the ranks) The others were sold for other uses.
I definitely think Crich should try and get 641, it’s a piece of history and far more worthy of preservation than 643 or 645, for example. Crich will have enough space for a Centenary once 711 and 40 return home, and perhaps the FHLT will let them raid 643 for spares.
Makes perfect sense that IF the opportunity arises to acquire 761 with agreeable terms in which ownership is transferred to plug Blackpool Trusts Fleet gap with a permanent acquisition. Its reached the promised land that is Rigby Road. In a ideal world it would simply be signed over for free or a nominal sum certainly it would be wrong to ask any more than the £1500 they paid for it. Personally considering they had free storage which would usually costs £100+ per month i think it reasonable to sign it over for free. Any fee paid would only be eating into scant resources. Lots of exciting projects to be getting on with.
A pretty resigned about the rest. Id love to think 641, 761 & 621 would escape and the rest are donated as parts. That seems the best result we could hope for
I agree with Christopher re 761, since its already back it makes sense to add it (conditions allowing) to the Collection in Blackpool. I think though that with the rest we need to be cautious. 641 would be a “nice to have” at Crich but with the preservation of 642 at Blackpool and 762 at Crich is not essential at the moment. I think we need to remember that all the Depots at both Crich and Clay Cross are not a Tardis and they are FULL and also that it is important for them to spend money wisely using their head rather than heart.
If everyone used there heads above their hearts there wouldn’t be any trams preserved! If the opportunity arises, Crich should definitely acquire 641.
What a strange comment! Of course there would be trams preserved, using your head means weighing up the merits of an individual tram against the resources available (money, storage space, manpower, work needed for it to be operated or made presentable) and deciding whether it is worth preserving. For example the MTMS have seen the value of a Metrolink T68 and decided to save one to ensure that the class would not disappear forever. This has more worth than saving, for example, a second Brush car.
What is open to personal interpretation, is whether TMS cars already in the collection were acquired because someone used their heart over their head – and if this hadn’t been the case, would there be room for 641?
Wouldn’t it be better for 621 to be back at Rigby Road and use 624 (259) as a source of spares for that (if it has any). Surely 621 won’t cost as much as 624 to be given a 717 style overhaul, will it? My view is that 624 has been out of the public eye for so long that I’ve almost forgotten it existed! There was always going to be three Brush Cars in the heritage fleet anyway… Even with the cost of transporting it back to RR, I couldn’t imagine the same amount of money/time would need to be spent on 621 as it would on 624. Just my view, happy to be proved wrong!
Bryan and the team behind the scenes are doing a fantastic job anyway so I’ll be happy with whatever happens!
Regards to all.
Mark
err no, originally there were to be no Brush cars retained in the BT Heritage fleet…
The rationale for 624 is that it has so many original features long since modified on other Brush cars such as sliding doors and twin destination indicators. As I understand it, 624 is actually in much better structural condition than its shabby cosmetic appearance suggests and BT can probably restore it for no more than the amount quoted by Crich to complete 298, though a few parts off 621 or 627 may be useful!!