We start a new set of “Picture in Time” images today and we’re back in Blackpool for the next few weeks.
The winter period is often associated with engineering works (particularly on the Blackpool Tramway which by its very nature is more seasonal than most other tramways in the UK) so it seems rather appropriate that we feature one of the dedicated engineering trams in this first photo of this latest series.
Taken at Thornton Gate Permanent Way yard on 14th April 1994 we see Works Brush 259 which was being used (with a trailer out of sight) in moving replacement rails along the tramway. 259 – now owned by the Fylde Transport Trust – started off life as Brush Railcoach 287 before being converted into a Works Car in 1971. It went through several numbers as a Works Car and would remain operational until 2002 when it was taken out of use and stored for the then LTT. It can currently be found stored in Rigby Road Depot.
Photograph by Phil Steer, 14th April 1994
Seeing the picture of Brush rail coach 287 in a very dilapidated condition can I ask other enthusiasts how they see the future for the unrestored and restored trams confined to RigbybRd. I think we may have to accept that it is not possible to operate vintage trams alongside modern trams operating a public service to a published timetable. Were the staff employed at Rigby Rd made redundant ? The future of the operation of vintage trams in Blackpool seems very doubtful. A healthy debate would be interesting.
Sadly, the record of a small but vocal minority of commentators here means a rational, healthy debate is very unlikely…
(fully expecting some to immediately jump in and prove me right)
As I recall it, Heritage cars have not operated as part of a published service to a regular timetable’ for some time. Wasn’t the operation in 2024 that of three trips daily, two along the front between Pleasure Beach loop and Bispham loop, with one longer trip to Fleetwood and return.
These were not part of, and did not interfere with, the BTS scheduled services.
On the wider point, I doubt that all the cars currently in Rigby Road can survive, but certainly a number are in good enough condition to operate a heritage service for some years to come, should they be properly maintained.
Which might be difficult, admittedly, given that a report by Fylde Transport Services about a year ago stated that they had been informed by BTS officials that most of the staff who had previously worked on these cars had been, or were in the process of being, either made redundant or ‘redeployed.’
Incidentally, large European networks such as Amsterdam and Prague seem perfectly able to operate Heritage cars on a regular basis, I believe.
It seems that, as the saying goes, ‘Where there is a will, there is a way.’
I hope that this may be considered a ‘healthy, rational’ comment!
Blackpool isn’t Amsterdam or Prague. The set up of public transport is different so you cannot compare.
There was once a will but it rapidly diminished. Some of the staff were, by the end, lazy and hopeless. Just look at the number of breakdowns.
Quite. Blackpool isn’t Amsterdam nor Prague. It is a far less complex system, with a far less intensive service. Yet Amsterdam and Prague are able to do something which Blackpool apparently finds too difficult?
‘Some of the staff were, by the end, lazy and hopeless. Just look at the number of breakdowns.’ Really? Can you give examples of both?
Let us sincerely hope that, if heritage trams do see the light of day on the Promenade once more, they will have been cleaned up.
For the past few years, they have looked tired and filthy with no attention paid to paintwork and 717, in particular, has not been cleaned to the point that seeing out of upper deck windows has been worse that contravision and its interior has looked like the unloved state the balloons were in during the late 1960s and early 1970s when they were seasonal people movers.
Over the past few years, the heritage trams have seldom carried appreciable loads so the fact they have been missing has not been a great burden on Blackpool Transport’s finances but I do agree with Frank Gradwell that, especially as we have seen the warmest and sunniest season in recent years, the three boats should have been selected to work up and down the Promenade, possibly running a Heritage Express service non-stop from Tower & North Pier to Pleasure Beach. They would have been “rammed full” as they were in the 1990s. (You could put a boat on the stop at North Pier and people would board it just for the sake of riding on an open tram without worrying about its destination!).
Sadly the foresight to run these trams has been lacking and Heritage had lost its way. Hence the filthy unloved “always the same” trams on the Promenade that looked dirtier by the day to the point where they must have been an embarrassment to people actually working them.
There are a good number of heritage trams that could, and should, be brought back into the limelight and, with proactive management, could be sponsored by companies, as they were in 1985 for the centenary, and live to fight another day on Blackpool Promenade.
It needs careful planning and, dare I say it, a cull of the duplication of types so that the remaining heritage fleet is manageable, loved and cared for, and always turned out in pristine condition.
If you look at heritage tram operation in European cities and even at the National Tramway Museum and Beamish, they do not turn the trams out looking like they need a good bath – they are pristine every time they go out.
A suitable size for the heritage fleet is certainly no more than 20 examples including the three illuminated feature cars. Some others could be permanent static exhibits in Tramtown and, hopefully, this project will get moving after an inspired start made in the former fitting shop.
The heritage fleet will need to have a proper, if shared, ownership and petty arguments between different owners and parties need to be ironed out to that everybody is “singing the same hymn, to the same tune and in the same key!”
Much to do, I’m afraid, but it can be done with a Heritage Tramway Manager who cares and has a bit of forethought about commercial sponsorship. You would even find willing volunteers to fill this role too!
Geoff Hewitt mentions larger European tram systems operating heritage trams successfully. The difference between the larger European systems is that they operate many routes and lightly used routes can be used for heritage trams whereas Blackpool has one basic route and I would therefore think operationally difficult to run modern and a variety of vintage trams. It has to be said that many vintage trams were running up down the promenade with only two or three passengers, sometime none at all.
It is a problem is there an answer ?
The single route, with a short diversion, at Blackpool hardly represents an intensive service. Having travelled on both flexity and heritage cars numerous times prior to the end of 2024, I can recall no occasion upon which a heritage car has delayed a flexity. Or, come to that, vice versa.
I think that it can be done – indeed it was done without many issues from 2012 onwards, it seems to have been a more recent issue that the heritage trams became increasingly unreliable. In the early years of the upgraded tramway there were probably more instances of heritage trams being delayed by Flexities than the other way around!
Regarding passenger numbers; there is of course no guaranteed recipe for success, but the two-car promenade service between Pleasure Beach and North Pier that operated prior to 2020 was generally very popular, especially in fine weather when Boats were used. A few of the people who used to volunteer on the trams claim to have taken over £1000 in a day on an open car, which should surely be considered a great day’s work! I think most people would expect that a similar setup with affordable prices to attract the average holidaymaker would be likely to do well if suitable trams were available to run it.
The answer is for BTS to LISTEN to what people want. Pre Covid the short trips where you could break your journey were often full.
Making it pre booked and round trip only killed it. It wasn’t obvious you could still walk up and the often clueless crews didn’t help giving mixed messages.
I was going to reply to some of the comments on here, but instead I’ll just state a few facts as I know them. And as I’ve actually worked for Blackpool Transport and a number of heritage lines around the country, I feel pretty well qualified to make a few comments of my own.
First, there is absolutely no technical reason why heritage trams can not run alongside the Flexcity fleet that Blackpool have saddled themselves with. Both types of vehicles nominally run on 550-650v DC. However when 761 was being tested back in the late 70’s it blew some of it’s control gear late one night. When investigations were made, it was found the section of track near Gynn Square was receiving 750v! earlier trams (Rack 2 and Box 40 at Crich) were designed to run on 500v DC, but their control gear and motors are of such a rugged design they have no problem dealing with 650v, it just makes them a bit faster. Indeed Rack 2 is quite capable of speeds around 50MPH in full parallel, which it allegedly did in Blackpool in the 60s after it’s restoration for the 75th anniversary.
Second, trolleys and pantographs CAN operate together. It is quite possible to operate trolley and pantograph cars together. Yes, you can build overhead that can’t accept trolleys if you don’t include frogs at junctions. However Blackpool’s overhead always has and still does include frogs.
Third, Blackpool’s heritage fleet are quite capable of keeping up with modern line running speeds. See my previous point about Rack 2!
Fourth, European Union rules say transport operators should do everything possible to make their services wheelchair accessible. However we are not in europe now, so those rules do not apply. Even if they did, there is no absolute requirement to carry wheelchairs of make other ‘Diptac’ modifications to vehicles, especially as they can receive special heritage exemptions. The Great Orme Tramway is a good example of this, where the entire service is still operated with the original vehicles. The Manx Electric and Snaefell are others.
Fifth, heritage trams can easily run as part of a modern network. A moderrn network can even be composed of entirely heritage vehicles as seen by the often overlooked heritage electric service in San Francisco. Cities with a thriving heritage service using the same tracks as modern LRVs are way too numerous to list. For anyone to suggest it can’t be done either shows ignorance or is an example of a bare-faced lie.
Sixth, I’m not surprised a heritage guard in Blackpool (they are always guards there, not conductors) can take £1000 in a shift. When I was there in the late 1990s, running full line service runs (which often didn’t carry that many people at the extremities of the line) I don’t ever remember paying in less than £500 and that’s nearly 30 years ago! Allowing for inflation I would think £1000 is entirely possible. However there are undoubtedly less people around in Blackpool these days, especially on cold illumination evenings.
Seventh, LRVs use tecnology rejected as being inferior in Blackpool in the 1920s! Have you ever looked at the wheels of an LRV? If you do you’ll see they don’t have bogies. There is a short fixed truck under each end section and another under the middle section. The two body sections between these are entirely unsupported. Effectively they are three 4-wheelers joined by very long towbars. The problem with this is the sections with the trucks tend to ‘nod’ backwards and forwards, creating a very uncomfortable ride and placing high stresses and wear onto a number of components including suspension and body structure due to the lack of a traditional under frame throughout. You’ll read elsewhere on these pages about Blackpool reducing it’s service to take trams off the road for suspension replacement after little more than 10 years in service! You’ll also remember The Caf vehicles elsewhere that had to be withdrawn and rebuilt after structural cracks appeared in the body structure of nearly new vehicles.
Blackpool previously rejected 4 wheelers in the early 20th century and had moved onto the far more comfortable and structurally better bogie cars by the time the standards were introduced in the 1920s.
Finally, the blackpool trams should not just be seen as transportation, but equally as a heritage asset and tourist attraction. As far as I’m aware, no manager since Joe Franklyn in the 1950s has had any experience either with museums or tourism. And that, I firmly believe, has been a massive failing. the last person to attempt to modernise the tramway who actually got away with is was Walter Luff. And even his latter attempt, the Coronation cars, was a complete failure. Thankfully Joe was not just a manager, but also a showman. It’s him we have to thank for keeping the balloons, introducing illuminated tours and building the feature cars we all knew and loved as children.
Millions upon millions have been spent by Blackpool Council over the last two or three decades on all kinds of ‘upgrades’ across the town. But what have they achieved? The illuminations are a shadow of their former selves, the town centre has been bulldozed and Britain’s last traditional tramway has gone. I now fear for the future of the piers, the Metropole obelisk, the Pleasure Beach and even the tower. Even if things changed now, I think it may be too late.
Congratulations on a superb post, much more eloquent and with more specific information than anything I have previously managed.
Unfortunately, if the article in the Blackpool Gazette from 15 January is taken at face value, the one to which I have already referred in an earlier post, then the final stage in the throat-cutting of the Blackpool Heritage Fleet which began in December, 2024, is about to begin.
An article about the future of the Blackpool Heritage Trams, if they actually have one, appeared in the ‘Blackpool Gazette’ today, 15 January:-
Simply search for ‘ Blackpool Gazette – Tramtown.’
There is now a petition available for interested parties to sign. I have been circulating it around my mates. Yes, I really do have some mates, by the way!
https://www.change.org/p/save-blackpool-heritage-trams-from-being-scrapped