The annual Fleetwood Festival of Transport, more commonly known as ‘Tram Sunday’, took place on Sunday 20th July 2014 with the usual mix of vintage transport displays, trade stalls and family entertainment filling the streets of Fleetwood, which were closed off to all but pedestrians for the duration of the event. However, it was, quite rightly, the heritage tram fleet which stole the show with a credible six historic trams appearing at the festival this year.
Following on from the successful heritage shuttle operated in 2013, a more ambitious plan was devised this year with a three car vintage service operating between Fisherman’s Walk (Fleetwood) and North Pier (Blackpool). For a number of reasons the intended half-hourly frequency was not always maintained, but despite this the operation was a big success with plenty of visitors being tempted to enjoy a nostalgic tram ride to and from the main event. The service commenced with the popular trio of Pantograph car 167 (making its first appearance at this event since 1998), ‘Princess Alice’ 706 and Fleetwood Box 40. The latter undoubtedly stole the show, making its first appearance in passenger service this year, and its only such outing before moving to Crich for the remainder of the season. To provide additional interest, 167 was retired after two trips and replaced by Open Boat 230, a choice which proved popular as the predicted rain failed to materialise. Unfortunately a minor fault with Bolton 66 meant that its advertised appearance did not occur but with such a fine selection of trams to enjoy its absence was hardly noticeable.
In addition to the operating trams, two more heritage cars were on static display at the other end of Fleetwood, these being Standard 147 and Balloon 717. Both of these trams were taken over by the wonderfully named ‘Squirrel & Tiffin’. For one day only, 147 became the ‘Tramera Obscura’ with its upper deck windows blocked out, whilst 717‘s top deck had been transformed into a garden inhabited by various knitted creatures! Another bizarre innovation for 2014 was provided in the form of poetry readings on the heritage trams, which met with a rather mixed response, particularly when paying passengers were left behind due to the readers occupying seats on the Boat car.
All in all, although ‘Tram Sunday’ as a whole is widely considered to be a far cry from its former self by many transport enthusiasts due to a declining number of vehicle exhibits and the shift from transport-orientated memorabilia to more general interest stalls which has led to suggestions that the event now resembles a car boot sale, the trams seemed to have a good day and any event that provides a positive showcase for the heritage fleet can only really be a good thing. Hopefully some of the minor issues experienced this year can be reviewed to make next year’s event even better.
A photo gallery featuring various scenes from the 2014 festival will be added to the main website in due course.
It was great to see the Heritage cars so busy and whilst I agree that the event has lost some of its charm with the smaller number of preserved buses on display and more fairground attractions it proved an enjoyable day. It is a pity that 147 and 717 did not carry passengers on their return to Blackpool. I saw them pass Bispham and they were a fine sight.
How do you imagine 717 could have carried passengers with a forest on its top deck? These trams had been chartered throughout the day by a private orgnaisation and were never intended to run in ordinary service.
Maybe in ‘top deck closed’ mode, just like it always used to?
That doesn’t change the fact that somebody had paid to hire it for their own purposes though. Personally if I paid a few hundred pounds to hire a tram for the day, I would be somewhat miffed if BTS then allowed the general public to ride on it and took their fares on top of the money I had paid for it. ‘Private hire’ – there’s a clue in one of the words!
Given the “summer” we are enjoying this year it seems a great shame that visitors to Blackpool cannot enjoy an “ad hoc” open air or double deck trip up the prom.
Is it really too difficult to institute a “heritage service” when the sun shines so as to make more use of the fleet, create more interest and provide more for the vistors to the resot to enjoy?
Yes it is. Where do you imagine the crew would come from to operate these trams? Does Blackpool Transport pay for drivers and gaurds to sit around just in case the sun shines and what occupies them during bad weather? They are also not allowed to run on stage carriage work and must operate tours, hence their use on designated heritage days and illuminations tours. Sorry, but if you want an open top ride visit Beamish or Crich. After all you wouldnt go to Nottingham, Sheffield or Croydon expecting an open top tram to run just because it is a sunny day.
Just to clarify things, the heritage cars ARE allowed to run in normal stage carriage service. They have special dispensation to operate, provided there is also a step free service running (which there now always is in Blackpool). Regarding crews, justa few years ago when I was there BT most definitely DID pay crews to sit around until the sun came out. there were almost always a couple of spare crews rostered to cover for sickness or to operate extra trams if nececcary for whatever reason.
The ‘B-Fleet’ vehicles were converted so they could operate to all current platform stops as an extra service between the nasty plastic catterpillars we now have to endure. However they never have used balloons in this way because they know most people would rather ride the balloon and leave the LRVs without any passengers, which would be a bit embarassing for the masterminds of what they like to term the ‘upgrade’.
For me personally, this was the foirst time in 20 years that I’ve not made a visit to Fleetwood Festival. It used to be a really good day out. We would park the car at Gynn square about 10am then catch a balloon or railcoach up to Fleetwood. we would amble up one side of the street, have lunch in the Ferry Cafe, able back down the other side, them head into Blackpool on one of the returning interesting trams about 4pm, before spending the evening riding up and down the prom on whatever interesting vehicles happened to be running.
Now there’s nothing worth visiting Blackpool for and quite a lot of that great day out has been ruined. Granted I did get to travel from Fleetwood to Blackpool on Princess Alice last year, but then had to suffer the indignity of one of those nasty plastic things back to the car!
I think the heritage fleet should be totally split from the operation at Starr Gate and operated by a seperate company. Let’s tell the eurocrats to stick their DDA regulations where the sun don’t shine and get Blackpool back to the traditional values that people have loved for well over a hundred years!
Regrettably you demonstrated why enthusiasts almost universally mocked. Total lack of understanding seemingly speaking from a alternate reality or perhaps a different planet entirely. Exemption Order came with various detailed criteria which Blackpool Transport Services & Co have made it quite clear they intend to fully adhere to it. Dispensation in perpetuity is vital and constant calls to do this and do that only serve to risk that.
1. The heritage fleet are NOT allowed to undertake stage carriage work. FACT!
2. The B fleet aren’t being used because there is no requirement for them as the Flexity fleet are coping admirable. And if, as you state, people would rather ride Balloons, why have passenger numbers saored over the past few years?
Sadly, your attitude does more harm than good for the great work being undertaken in Blackpool, supported by some enthusiasts while others make themselves look increasingly ridiculous
Only ‘difficulty’ is finding a sponsor to pay to have the crew sat around doing nothing on the two out of three days the weather doesn’t cooperate… At around £350 per crew per day, are you willing to pay for them to sit in the depot all day?
Are you telling us a member of Blackpool tram crew is on £175 per day then? Because if you are I must see if they’ve got any vancancies! Actually at that rate I’d happily sit around unpaid until needed, then just pay me on the days I actually take a tram out!
Remember there are no fuel costs for a tram. The electricity in the wires can not be storred, so has to be generated and pumped into the system weather there are any trams running or not. And even if it was metered, you would be amazed how efficient a 1934 balloon car is compared to those horrid purple catterpillars, which eat electric even before they go anywhere!
Franklyn,
Are you completely oblivious to the reality of employment law, discrimination law, transport operations and the workings of a tramcar or are you deliberately misrepresenting the facts in an flawed attempt to support your blinkered minority view?
1. The costs of employing someone are far greater than the amount the employee actually takes home. (Taxes, NI, Insurance etc etc).
2. Electricity is drawn from the national grid and is metered. Of course more is drawn as more trams are in service!! If you turn off all the appliances in your home (and the majority of readers of the dross you post on here wish you would start with the computer) you WILL find less is “pumped into your system”…
3. A Flexity is actually more efficient than a Bruch Railcoach per passenger per mile when regeneration and the current it feeds back into the system under braking is taken into account. Old sytle controllers are actually very inefficient in the acceleration and braking phase when much of the current is wasted as heat generated in the resistances.
4. Can we ask if the car you “used to park at Gynn Square” is 80 years old or is it “some Modern Japaneese Plastic Rubish”? Unless you commute to work in a pre-war Morris, it is unfair for you to expect the populace of the Fylde to travel to work in a tram of similar vintage…
5. Sorry Alice isn’t available to Hire on an illuminations Evening – she’s already busy on BT’s Heritage Illuminations Service – the proceeds of which go a long way towards covering the shortfall on the daytime heritage service…
… oh here’s another thing… This sponsoring of the heritage service we hear so much about these days. I know it costs money to run them, but have the crews forgotten how to collect money from the passengers or something?
When the service is sponsored (like the FTS did a while back) who gets the money from the fares? If I hire a coach to visit Blackpool then I pay the coach operator a pre-arranged fee (sponsorship?) but I get to keep what everyone pays me to ride on it.
If this is the case I’m more than happy to sponsor 706 to run every Saturday and Sunday of the illuminations from 9am until midnight. I think I may even make a small profit 😉
Simply flabbergasting the lack of appreciation and understanding shown by some “enthusiast” when it comes to cost of running a heritage operation.
Regarding Sponsorship it is a donation. Its groups or individuals wanting to support this fledgling operation and putting their money where their mouth is. It helps the operation cover its costs and reduces the financial risk placed upon the operation.
So just where do the Heritage Crews come from on the approximately ten days a year that the service does operate, and who pays for the crews to sit around for the other 355 days a year.
Sorry, but your argument just fell flat on its undeserving face.
If the crews on heritage days are working rest days, then what is to stop a phone call asking for staff prepared to volunteer – and why should what is a heritage service on one day be a stage carriage service the next – just to suit the foibles of people who don’t know how to dodge round petty bureacracy and make things happen?
Its not what you say its the way that you say it, and its not what you do, but the way that you do it.
The Heritage crews come from some very careful juggling of the Staff rotas to free the necessary crews from their usual duties on the Flexities without exceeding the driving hours regulations which are far more stringent than a few years ago, and allow much less tollerace for overtime or rest day working… Of the other 355 days, they are ‘sitting around’ in the cab of a Flexity for 250 days and at home for the other 100…
Chris, I think that you may still be a bit too young to realize that for a lot of people (enthusiast is not the derogatory term you seem to think it is) actually went to Blackpool just to ride on the last original street system in the UK. This was their holiday. Riding modern German monstrosities is no holiday. I would imagine that if an extra set of points was put in on the turn to Fleetwood Ferry there would be a queue of people waiting to throw the points and send every one of these replacements for traditional British values straight on into the river. Maybe then we would be able to have an enjoyable holiday again.
That was perfectly true Kevin, however a lot more poeople use the tramway as a convenient means to commute to work in Blackpool. That local market is the ‘bread and butter’ year round income for the tramway; it has always been worth much more than the 6 month tourist market and has near doubled since the upgrade… I’m sure you don’t commute to work in an 80 year old vehicle do you??
If you want to ride for pleasure on a traditional tram, you just need to plan your holiday to include a bank Holiday weekend, or if you can’t wait till then for your Tramway ‘fix’, try Heaton Park, Beamish, Birkenhead or Crich…
hi, Paul. It would be nice if we had a preserved line with a 30 mile round trip with coastal views. I know they all do a great job but its time to get off at the end of the line as soon as you get on. Not much opportunity to get the experience of doing an indicated 53mph on a Millenium car down the bank to Little Bispham on the last service of the day!
As for travel to work I cant manage an 80 year old car but do use my 60 year old TR2 which gets a fair bit of use and my 50 year old Jag will still see off most foreign cars which will be in the crusher within 10 years.
We do have a 30 mile round tram trip with coastal views. It’s called the Manx Electric Railway. I don’t know why you would want to do 53mph on a line with coastal views – not much time to take in the view at that speed. And they would have to renew the fleet in order to use 80 year old vehicles.
That’s your choice though. Forcing other people into using vehicles that are well past their sell-by date as far as general use is concerned comes across as being rather selfish and completely ignores all statistics that show the incredible success of the modernised Blackpool tramway.
Hi Andrew, a bit sad that you find it impossible to partake in a bit of light hearted banter without getting personal and calling someone selfish just because they may not agree with your view. Maybe the mediator ought to remove any comment that criticizes other people in this way. Do you by any chance drive a German car!
Far from thinking the term enthusiast is derogatory feel its no longer appropriate to use the term to describe people who support the ludicrous and fundamentally flawed arguments arguing the Heritage Trams should replace the core Flexity service. For me the real definaton of enthusiasts in the 2014 context is those getting behind the Blackpool Heritage Tram Tour revolution supporting the events in any way they can whilst supporting and recognising the vital role the Flexity service continues to deliver. Fantastic passenger numbers combined with unparalleled satisfaction levels recorded dispel the myths generated from afar.
Hi Chris, I never really got much satisfaction standing along with 100 other people on a half hour journey. A couple of baloons would at least let everybody sit down! The forerunners of the Vambacs were known as cattle trucks, an apt description for todays trams when people are crammed on and pensioners forced to stand for long periods. Surely this should be against current health and safety legislation. I have never heard anyone saying “what a wonderful experience this is.”
Except Balloons wouldn’t allow ‘everyone’ to sit down, because there are plenty of people who can’t manage the steps on the old fleet so would be left behind at the stop. Even with the platforms there is still a step into the actual saloon, and that’s before we consider the obvious issue of the stairs to the top deck. Quite rightly most people now see the bigger picture with disability access requirements etc. rather than simply taking the view “I want to go on a Balloon” which is not in the spirit of a public transport system at all. If you don’t like what has happened to the Blackpool tramway please leave it to the majority of us who like what we have now and appreciate that, had it not been for the upgrade, the whole system would probably have closed.
No, but able-bodied people could board the balloons and reduce the crush-loading on a following flexity for the elderly and mobility impaired, or avoid said flexity having to leave these people behind. Of course if BTS hadn’t – as it turns out – wasted colossal amounts of taxpayers’ money on converting the balloons the argument wouldn’t exist, and they could possibly have made some money to plough into the system by selling the 10 unneeded and over-duplicated balloons for scrap.
Hi Ken, now why didnt anybody think of that before? using both together when the newbies get overfull. As for scrapping balloons – there was a waiting list of people who wanted to buy a tram for preservation, me included, still would be happy to take one if it came available
Not interested in getting into an argument, but on the legislation for the heritage there is no mention for when they are allowed to run.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/8090/rvar-blackpool-trams.pdf
Actual legislation does not tell the whole story. As part of getting the legislation passed went out to consultation with various “significant” groups. Agreed best practise to ensure clear distinctions between stage carriage and heritage operation must be clearly maintained. These documents are enshrined now as very much part of the framework to ensure the operation continues in perpetuity.
Echo your sentiment regarding this tired debate rearing its head though.
The basic grounding principles of the relevant acts is that Heritage Cars will never be seen to supplement the core service in stage carriage and are to remain very much a tourist attraction. The requirements regarding separate stops means the adhoc service suggested would be incredibly difficult to publicise and as such would fail under the current framework.
Personally think its time everyone simply got behind what was on offer. Its clear its gathering momentum. Need to keep that momentum up and see it progress gradually.
I certainly agree that the debate about use of heritage cars in normal service has run its course (several times actually). The only thing that bugs me is that nobody in authority has sought to publicly explain or defend the short-sighted and scandalous decision to spend large amounts of taxpayers’ hard-earned money on converting 10 balloon cars to enable them to operate with the flexities, just for them to spend their time sitting in Rigby Road alongside their unmodified siblings, and just being used on heritage days as ‘heritage’ trams, or being loaned to Crich. The money spent on them could no doubt have been much better spent. The only time they have seen any proper use was on the day when an RTA prevented any trams getting out of Starr Gate depot.
Now thats a thought. Anybody got a steam roller they can park across the gates first thing in the morning?
I personally am beginning to find these interminable debates between the many ‘experts’ about the rights and wrongs of the Blackpool upgrades rather boring. Time to give it a rest?
I’d rather stand on the tram than stand at the stop because there isn’t room to get on as I recall sometimes happened during the Illuminations. Also, many pensioners couldn’t use the seats upstairs on a Balloon and single decker rail coaches would be too expensive to crew in regular service. Blackpool’s motto is “Progress” and the “Purple People Eaters” – a name that could also applied to York’s purple FTR pseudo-trams (since transferred to Leeds but likewise aptly named due to their ability to swallow up queues whole) – certainly have a “Wow” factor. To have these very modern vehicles alongside occasional heritage operations is really the best of both worlds.
As regards the modified Balloons the issue is that, despite increases in patronage, the extra capacity they provide is not needed – at least not so far. Perhaps that will change when the North Station line opens. However, the cost of converting the Balloons will have been much less than buying extra Flexity 2’s that might not have been needed but would have avoided the embarrassment of lack of capacity should passenger numbers have been higher than they have turned out to be. A cheap insurance policy perhaps and giving flexibility (no pun intended) for the future?
Too many tram projects have had to pare fleet size to the bone or dispense with supposed optional (!) extras like having a wheel lathe just to make the “numbers” and then struggled to fund what was needed in the first place. Compared with Manchester at one time having to contemplate (notoriously unreliable – that’s why they got rid of them!) redundant San Francisco Boeing LRVs to enlarge the fleet the modified Balloons were a smart way of ensuring there would be adequate capacity.
This was supposed to start out to be a worthily commented and balanced article regarding the fact that this years “Tram Sunday” (not it’s real name), had a credible amount of heritage trams at it, which I must suggest is in no small part down to the event’s committee in sponsoring 2 of the cars. Remembering that it is a free entry event, I think that this is quite a creditable and laudable feat for them.
However it has now sadly seemingly descended into a tit for tat unrealistic, rose coloured spectacles, diatribe about how the Flexity cars should be replaced by heritage cars on normal service etc etc.
Firstly, some of the comments, if serious, sadly show just how some “enthusiasts” can get the tram fan hobby a bad, or certainly a sad, name!!
Secondly.. Just not going to happen.. Deal with it!!
However, to be fair…Thirdly, I for one am glad that we can even have this sort of debate at all, as surely it is a totally unique fact of this UK system, that new LRV cars and heritage vehicles, can actually rub shoulders from time to time. Perhaps in many enthusiasts eyes, not as often as they’d like, but it is nonetheless, a unique possibility. Isn’t that worth celebrating, as against simply bewailing or criticising it?
And regarding the frequency of the heritage service’s availability, if I recall correctly, in the first year of LRV/ Heritage operation, Bryan tried having the heritage fleet out quite often and accordingly it wasn’t as popular as was hoped, probably because the opportunities to use it were perhaps too common and so ridership seemed low. It is perhaps ironic that now that the opportunities to use the heritage cars has been more limited, that it is seemingly much more successful, though it may simply be the same amount of people, but on fewer days, thus appearing to have higher numbers and certainly lower operating costs.
And yes, I may agree that the Flexity doesn’t excite as much as seeing say, a Coronation out there, but I’d suggest, should we not just be glad that we can at least see both types operating together and that, like it or not, the investment and great success of the former, helps allow the operation of the latter and it’s compatriots.
Now can we all perhaps at least agree that that is worth celebrating and SUPPORTING by using it and then all just calm down a bit please?
I think – yet again – that we have “done” this subject to a death and so no more comments will be approved on this story. We do try to allow any comments on any tram related subject on this blog regardless of whether we agree with what people are saying but I am afraid some people just take this too far and keep going on and on and on about the same subject like a dog with a bone and to be honest it gets VERY tiresome!
The Blackpool Tramways main purpose is a public transport system to get people from A to B and the Flexity2s do this far more reliably than you could ever hope 80 year old trams would do! The heritage trams have a place in Blackpool and we should be grateful that they still do as it would have been very easy for a decision to be made that the system was being upgraded so heritage had no role to play anymore.
TOPIC CLOSED!!!