Balloon 700 impersonates a Flexity!

Sunday 15th July saw the annual Fleetwood Transport Festival event staged, and Blackpool Transport chose this occasion to unveil the first traditional tram to have been outshopped in the new Flexity-style fleet livery of purple and white. The chosen recipient is prototype Balloon car 700, which was released from the Paint Shop in secrecy the previous day ready for its starring role at the event.

700 was taken to Fleetwood early on the Sunday morning, before the road through Fleetwood was closed off for the day’s event. The car was joined by sister 717 to give the unusual sight of traditional and modernised Balloons together, and the duo then spent most of the day parked at Pharos Street before heading back to Rigby Road once the event had drawn to a close. 717 was used by the Fleetwood Heritage Leisure Trust as a base to promote their plans to develop a number of visitor attractions in Fleetwood, whilst project leader John Woodman was also present to launch his latest book. Sadly both trams ran to Fleetwood and back empty – although the rare sight of two Balloons running through Fleetwood was certainly a very welcome one.

However, it was undoubtedly car 700 which really stole the show tram-wise, and its new look has already generated great debate. The newly painted tram sports dark purple ends whilst the body sides are mainly white, with purple side swoops along the lower panelling and large Blackpool Transport logos prominently placed above the centre platform doors. Although this modern livery has predictably been criticised in some quarters, it at least gives a sense of corporate identity to the tram and should be considered a major improvement on the white base coat previously worn by the car. As 700 has only run in passenger service on a tiny number of days since being modernised with widened centre doors, hopefully this livery will mark an upturn in its fortunes and the car will see more frequent use during the illuminations season. It is not yet known when, or if, any of the other modified double-deckers will receive the Flexity livery but with their advert contracts being transferred onto buses, this could well become the normal livery for these trams.

Disapointingly, another tram website has launched another scathing attack on Blackpool Transport, both for the apparent lack of effort they invested in this year’s Fleetwood Transport Festival, and for the way that 700 has been modernised. Once again it needs to be stressed that Blackpool Transport is a commerical transport operator – indeed the company could quite easily have ignored the event, but instead they chose to provide some additional interest and help to promote a local preservation group, which should surely be applauded. Whilst the event formelly known as Tram Sunday could certainly have been better, at least some classic trams were able to appear in Fleetwood whilst the heritage service in Blackpool kept those of us who prefer to ride on vintage trams entertained for the day. As for the new livery on 700, we will leave it to our readers to form their own opinions of its appearance, rather than try to force one viewpoint on others, and any comments on it will be most welcome!

The new-look 700 shows off its new Flexity-inspired livery at Pharos Street in Fleetwood whilst on static display at the town's annual Transport Festival. (Photo by Andrew Blood)

 

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25 Responses to Balloon 700 impersonates a Flexity!

  1. Ken Walker says:

    I was surprised to see 700 in Pharos Street in the new livery, but after the initial shock I didn’t think it looked bad at all. It is the deformity of the widened centre entrance that spoils the look of the modified balloons for me, but I suppose it’s better than them being withdrawn and possibly broken up. I’m also pleased to see that the external advertising on the Flexities is restrained so as to allow the corporate fleet image to not be spoilt – far better than the all-over adverts of the old fleet in my opinion

  2. Garry says:

    Having just returned from tram sunday,or should that be tram less sunday i do have to say that this event is now turning into one thats not really a transport festival anymore!!!! 2 trams on display and only around 10 buses!!! this event is a former shadow of itself and is now turing out to be just a Gala day with kiddies rides and charity stalls!!!

    How hard would it be to drive a few of the heritage trams up to fleetwood and park them up for the day???? I do really think BTS have no interest at all in this occasion anymore!!!!! such a shame as it would help to light the fire under this once great event again!!!

    I did take a look at 700 and i have to say it looks rather smart,of course opinion will be deeply divided over this re-paint,but all credit to BTS for doing a brave thing,lets just hope its not left in the depot gathering dust,and it earns it keeps on the prom!!!!

  3. DAODAO says:

    I make a day trip to Blackpool once a year and went yesterday to Tram(-less) Sunday. While this festival was disappointing, it is a once a year event, and I was even more disappointed with the “revamped” tram service that Blackpool Transport (BTS) is offering as public transport.

    I arrived at North Pier at 1210 and waited nearly 25 minutes for a northbound tram. Most of the waiting passengers gave up and took the number 1 bus instead, as the tram scheduled to depart at 1217 failed to arrive. It was fortunate that I didn’t try to use the Heritage tram service, as the boat car waiting in the re-sited North Pier loop had failed and was towed away to the old depot by a recovery lorry. When a tram eventually arrived at 1235, it was fairly full and missed several stops as it was late and then full by Cleveleys, leaving a number of passengers at Cleveleys and the missed stops having to wait even longer for a tram. I overheard several complaints from passengers about the lack of seats on a journey of over 5 miles and some stated that they intended to return by bus; the 2 guards clearly had difficulty in ensuring that everyone had a valid ticket. On arrival at Fisherman’s Walk, on questioning the inspector, he gave a limp excuse about a tram being delayed by the mayor’s visit.

    On returning south, the tram was again full, although I did manage to obtain a seat this time, but there were some irritating rattles (?from the external destination panel) on what is a new vehicle. At South Pier, a passenger waiting at the northbound stop came on board to complain about a long wait for a northbound tram and was told by the guard that as he was unhappy he should use the number 1 bus instead. I returned north from Harrow Place on the 1700 departure from Starr Gate and noted that even the published timetable showed that the service was only every 30 minutes northbound from then onwards – on a sunny summer afternoon!

    Given that considerable investment has been made in renewing the tramway and buying new vehicles, this investment will be wasted and the service will be a drain on the public purse unless it runs sufficiently frequently (including on summer Sundays) so that timetables don’t need to be consulted (except possibly on winter Sundays and evenings out of season) and that there aren’t unexpected gaps in the service. Fare machines at the stops are desirable (as in Manchester), with encouragement to buy passes before boarding (which are actually good value). I noted a private competing bus service 12 running between Pleasure Beach and Gynn Square, but surely BTS itself should cease running competing bus service 1 if it wishes the tramway to prosper?!

    Why didn’t BTS bring out a couple of the expensively refurbished Balloon cars, given the likely high demand for travel to Fleetwood on Tram Sunday, or are Sunday pay rates too prohibitive?

  4. GLYN says:

    i to went to Tramless Sunday, though it was very poor show, i have been told it may be the last Transport show ever, can’t get the helpers any more, Trams overloaded they needed more trams in service, liked 700 new colour, i hope they paint all the modifed Balloons that colour, the No One Bus should go,it’s not need any more, now they have Modern Trams!, i think they are new.

    • Deckerman says:

      Sorry you felt show was “poor”. Please see my other replies for why I think that statement is unfair, but you are entitled to it, but equally, so am I to mine.

      And I can assure you that whilst Fleetwood Festival of Transport (Tram Sunday) can’t speak for other similar shows surviving or not, which is perhaps what you’d heard, but as far as I am told by the current members, FFoT is most DEFINITELY, very much going to be with us next year and hopefully, for MANY more to come.

      No argument about the trams being full, but that just again perhaps backs up the argument that the show must have something going for it, rather than being “poor”, after all. 70.,000 can’t ALL be wrong surely, can they?

      700 did indeed look fine and more to the point, looked corporate to compliment the Flexitiy fleet. I’d also suggest that she didn’t look nearly 80 years old either!! That would be a bit like having a 1937 Leyland TD5 looking like it’s almost new. Now THAT’s an achievement I think you’d agree.

      And finally, Number 1’s carry on runnnig alongside the trams, for ONE reason and ONE reason ONLY, So that NO ONE else runs it!

      If they did, the reasoning is that the new competition might be powerful enough to effectively close the tramway down by taking almost all it’s revenue. That is BTS’s logic. Not saying it would actually happen, but that IS genuinely the reason it is kept running.

  5. Frank Gradwell says:

    The “new” 700 – what an appalling variation on the new colour scheme :- It looks like someone has given it a bloody nose! I thought this might look better :-

    http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/YMEGUMp7AK7TYkLc89dgXRYbM571pTeZEY-1tGtdBbLoSgtgYR-Nj0Dk_MpVFLw1vGVjRJ7hzOEZYKHzIchwsma1RyLFXh5npw/Blackpool%20700%20livery%20choices/Blackpool%20700%20alternative.jpg

  6. Ken Walker says:

    Unfortunately Frank clicking on the link produces a “web page cannot be found” page!
    Daodao, after giving up on trying to obtain any photographs of the few buses that were present at tram-less Sunday, I walked down to Fisherman’s Walk and decided to take some pics of flexities between there and Lindel Road and was there from about 1pm. I noticed there was a considerable amount of time passed without any sign of a northbound tram, and then 3 appeared within the space of about 7 or 8 minutes, on what was supposed to be a 15 minute service. Unfortunately with so few trams in service now there is no opportunity to commandeer a “special” to step into the base service in place of a late runner. At least they all ran through to Fisherman’s Walk!

    • Ken Walker says:

      That’s certainly a stylish alternative, Frank! Perhaps you should let BT have your idea for consideration for the rest of the balloon fleet if they are repainted. Although I don’t think 700 looks too bad, the unbroken purple fronts need some relief. On the flexities the purple is broken up by the large windows.

  7. Tram Sunday was shadow of what it used to be. However I remember that the novelty trams were not just exibits they provided extra seats to get people to and from Fleetwood. Whilst I understand a crew shortage prevented more trams going to Fleetwood for display I cannot understand why 700 which can use the new stops and was complete with conductor did not go as a passenger car. I understand 717 might have been more difficult to deal with. It was very odd to see the Mayor standing on the Flexity stop in full outfit with crowds of people waiting for the flexity to Fleetwood whilst 600 on the Heritage tour glided past with only a few passengers. 700 represents part of the future (a recycled tram from the past) Why not stop getting upset about it and hopefully soon Blackpool transport will start to use it and its other collection of widened Balloons.
    I used the Heritage service on Tram Sunday and althogh 600 had to retire 3 trams were used for only Ten Pounds. A few years ago you paid Six pounds for a few Centenary cars if you bought a Travelcard on the wrong day!

    Chris Bracey

  8. Deckerman says:

    I have read with interest the comments regarding the, so called, “Tram-less Sunday”.

    Firstly, to put things into context, the event has NEVER officially been called ANYTHING that even CLOSELY resembles the words “Tram Sunday”. It was originally called “Fleetwood Transport Festival” and now, it’s “The Fleetwood Festival of Transport”. It has become known as “Tram Sunday” by everybody EXCEPT those organising it and when they DID try to re-title it a few years back, to lose the “Tram” bit, everyone got confused that there was another, different and separate event on, so they are sadly now stuck with it. Admittedly they understand why it’s stuck as, quite reasonably, it is less of a mouthful, but please do not let that confuse anybody that it has EVERYTHING to do with trams, as it does not and has NEVER pretended to. It had over 170 vehicles there at it and I counted 27 buses, so it is CERTAINLY a TRANSPORT event in my book.

    Additionally, as you may have noted, but perhaps conveniently forgotten, it is a completely FREE event and so those organising it simply CANNOT afford to hire in the vehicles from Blackpool Transport at about £1000 per vehicle per day to fill it up and to be honest, why should they? There’s a full tram system next to it that UNIQUELY in the UK, can run heritage next to LRV’s but despite launching 700 at it and giving up 717 with a crew, which they didn’t need to have done, it’s not enough it seems.

    FToF have to depend upon the kindness and charity of BTS to supply ANYTHING on a Sunday at their increased costs rate, and they I am sure, fully appreciate that. I do not deny that BTS shifted the crowds and probably made a few bob, but as a transport company, that’s their job and maybe next year they will put a few more trams out in recognition of that, but frankly, that’s TOTALLY up to them..

    Therefore, I would respectfully suggest that those of you who are complaining about the lack of trams, perhaps should “put your money where your mouth is” and sponsor a tram or two to attend. I am quite sure that the committee and BTS would be most open to that. However, don’t forget that they couldn’t be allowed to run during the event because of them then running through the HUGE crowds, estimated by police at between 65,000 – 70,000. I’d say with numbers like that, that they were doing something right, wouldn’t you? FAR more than they had at a similar event earlier in the year, I’d suggest and that IS an enthusiast event, so who’s got it right, do you suggest? .

    In fact the 2 events are poles apart. I’d suggest that one is 90% enthusiast and 10% visitor, whereas FToT is the EXACT opposite. So if you don’t like going to a “Tramless” event, then either fund it so that it isn’t as “Tramless” anymore, or just don’t go. In the HUGE crowds, trust me…you won’t be missed!!

    Finally, just name me a SINGLE other event that is completely FREE to enter, and has ANY trams at it whatsoever on their own tracks and with an operating LRV system literally attached to it, that also has OPERATING Heritage vehicles within it? I can’t think of one, but if you can, please go there instead as you’d obviously be MUCH better served by it.

    Until then, be damn GRATEFUL that a few unsung, good and generous people give up nearly a year of their own free time EVERY year for you, totally VOLUNTARILY to put on the “Greatest FREE Transport show” that there is.probably ANYWHERE!!

    Oh and as for it being the last one, keep up the damn whingeing and it might be, cos after all that hard work, I’d say that that’s all a hard working, voluntary committee want to see isn’t it? And I’m sure that they aren’t against criticism, if it’s valid. As far as I can see, this isn’t, as it isn’t thought through and doesn’t stand up very well, to criticism or context itself.

    But as far as it’s future is concerned, I am led to believe that the event has NEVER had more support and momentum, so perhaps unlike other similar events, I’d suggest that it’s here for the duration, “Tramless” or otherwise!!

  9. Ken Walker says:

    I think you will find that in the early years from 1985, Tram Sunday is EXACTLY what it was called, with preserved trams operating through to Fleetwood Ferry (of which I have photographs in 1985). As far as the greatest free transport event is concerned, I think the Heaton Park rally can make that claim, with far more vehicles, an operating tramway on site, and as of last year an operating vintage bus service between the park and the GMTS museum at Boyle Street. However, your comments made regarding the amount of voluntary (and to some extent unappreciated) effort put into the Fleetwood event are perfectly valid

    • Deckerman says:

      Ken,

      Whilst I thank you for the comments regarding the hard work of the committee, I can assure you that being on the committee myself back then, ( hence my passionate comments of support for this UNIQUE event) it has never been OFFICIALLY called “Tram Sunday” by them. That was what I said. I freely admit that they have since had to subtitle it that, for the reason’s I stated, but to draw some oxygen away from the “Tram (less) Sunday” argument, I was stating that (quite understandably) it’s the visiting public that made that title up, not the organisation, that then lets them get it in the neck, as in “How DARE you call it Tram Sunday” etc..All I’m saying is… THEY, (the committee)… NEVER have!!.

      I take your points about Heaton Park, but if you note, I included the operating Blackpool tramway that does adjoin the FFoT, which then DOES, I would suggest, have more trams than Heaton Park, (excellent though it is I must say). And of course Fleetwood’s service includes LRV’s which, quite rightly, do not run on the park system. Though equally, I admit that Metrolink isn’t too far away and may hopefully, eventually link up. But even then, it won’t be actually ADJOINING the vehicle line up which was the example I wanted to try to bring a LEVEL comparison to.

      I would agree that the vehicle numbers at the Trans Lancs, may well be similar to “Tram Sunday”, at around 200, (so perhaps not “far more” as you stated) but equally, to be fair, it’s near a major city where more owners will, by default, usually live, keeping fuel costs to attend, down, which was admittedly a factor this year at numbers in FFoT,

      And of course we haven’t witnessed this years HP event yet, so we will have to see what transpires numbers wise yet. (Though I hope that they are still healthy)

      Also a factor that HP doesn’t have to contend with is that Fleetwood needs vehicles there early to avoid the “wrong sort of interaction” with the crowds, (IE 8 ton bus V Human) that would basically close the event down and I think the committee realise this, but it has perhaps become a victim of it’s own success in that subject, as long distance owners feel they cannot get to it before it fills up too much to be safe to drive through, which shows responsibility on their part, but will sadly knock down the numbers. Heaton Park of course, is HUGE and therefore vehicles can arrive all day without any problems, and from my experience, do so, which is fine and long may that occur until the HSE get hold of it, which sadly they probably eventually will!!.

      But the WHOLE point of my “rant” was that I’m sick and tired of those people, who usually have done absolutely NOTHING to assist the event and know absolutely NOTHING of the mechanics of running such an event (or ANY event for that matter), but then carry on whingeing about it all and equally then doing NOTHING but whinge, to even attempt to put it right..

      They want extra trams.. fine..its a FREE event, so the event CAN’T afford it… so sponsor them. It’s not rocket science!! Or join the committee to assist, or even just send in a PRACTICAL sensible, achievable AFFORDABLE, solution.

      But if they don’t want to, or can’t, equally fine, but in that case, just shut the hell up until they can!! Rather than, “Tramless” boo hoo.. “just 2 trams” boo hoo..” it’s not good now”.. boo hoo. etc Well if its so bad, I say to them, don’t come anymore and let the event concentrate on the TENS upon TENS of THOUSANDS that DO enjoy it…Simples!!

      • Ken Walker says:

        Deckerman, I appreciate ALL the points you put. If you were a member of the committee back in 1985 then you know far better than I do what it was OFFICIALLY called. But I recall seeing posters and other items advertising Tram Sunday, in fact at that time if it hadn’t been advertised as such I wouldn’t have attended. The problem is, Joe Public has no way of distinguishing between “official” and “unofficial” publicity. Your local media the Fleetwood Weekly News doesn’t help your argument either, there have been constant references in it to Tram Sunday over the years, in fact as recently as 19th July this year there was a headline “Tram Sunday’s on a Roll”. When people see this event publicised as Tram Sunday in the media it’s only natural they expect to see trams at the event, and it’s also only natural that they feel miffed when they attend and there aren’t any, particularly if they have travelled some distance for the event. There again, those who complain about it “being tramless again” have obviously known the score before attending and as you say should maybe consider saving their time and money. Myself, having been aware of the nature of the event from previous visits, I actually did as you suggest, and attended Fleetwood but only visited North Albert Street for long enough to attend the excellent chippy, and spent the rest of my day with the “flexities”!

        • Deckerman says:

          I agree with you on that yes, And that is EXACTLY my point, via this website to try in a small way to eat into the fact that it is NOT, has NEVER been and NEVER will be, a TRAM only based event, in the vain hope that enough people will stop bleating that there are fewer trams there.

          Granted in the first and very early years, there were trams running, but even then, whilst that made it unique, it was more about the visiting vehicles that FAR outnumbered the trams, that the trams then simply augmented.

          And what people and the papers wish to call it, is THEIR problem!

          It cannot be “Tramless Sunday” if it’s NEVER officially been Tram Sunday to start with can it? . End OF!!!

          Complainants should therefore complain to the people who call it Tram Sunday, that there are few Trams there, which, whoever it IS, certainly ISN’T the committee.

          Even so, it could be argued that there are up to 15- 20 trams between those on service, those doing Heritage service and those visiting the event as statics, which link one way or another to the event, so again,.. “Tramless??”.. Not really that valid is it?

          Anyway, I think I’ve spent enough time trying to get the point across and I can only hope that this coverage has now perhaps gone some way to clearing that misnoma up.

          Thank you.

  10. JONO says:

    Yes but how many of them were there for the transport element of the day. It’s turning into more a fayre than anything.

    • Deckerman says:

      Yes, Jono, I totally agree.

      Very few were there for the transport element. And that’s EXACTLY why THEY had 60-70,000 people and other local ENTHUSIAST based transport events had perhaps 5,-10,000, if that.

      Go to ANY preserved railway. How many enthusiasts are there paying to ride the rails? Very few. They are at the line-side, stood by their cars, taking pictures and then going home. So what do they bring to the table?

      Every single preserved railway, museum line heritage tramway, etc etc is almost TOTALLY dependent upon Mummy, Daddy and 2 point.4 kiddies going on… Horror of Horrors…a bright blue engine with a happy face painted on it called….”Thomas”, or buying a tea and a bun, or booking on the dining experience etc etc. FFoT is now having to be the same, or it won’t survive and then, no matter how large or small a part of it caters for the enthusiast, it simply won’t be a subject for discussion anymore will it? .

      Any railway that would put out PURELY enthusiast led, totally accurate locos, that did not cater for any other type of families at all, would die.. almost without exception, I would suggest.

      FFoT is NO different and HAS to be!!

      Sad for the enthusiast, I agree, but no less true, because, in the great scheme of things, there just aren’t enough of them to go round all the railways, tramways, museums, events etc that we now have. And even if there were enough, I doubt they would really strictly contribute anything like what is needed and probably never will..And it’s not a criticism, it’s just a FACT!! In my experience, on the whole, they come, stand at the side of the line with a camera, go on nothing, they eat their own butties, they go home. Then usually whinge that the Brunswick Green was half a shade too light for a 1956 BR engine, or that there “weren’t enough STEAM loco’s in steam, as it’s A STEAM railway after all isn’t it? See it says STEAM in the title!!” Sound familiar? Job done!!

      So they have a nice FREE day out, bring little, or nothing, to the event, then whinge that its no use.. And does THAT too, sound familiar?

      So regarding it being a “fayre”, you may be right, but regarding where it has to pander to the all powerful visitors, FFoT is no different to the railways and museums and quite simply, it HAS to be.

      If the FFoT said that they’d change it so that in future, it catered ONLY for the enthusiast, could you GUARANTEE that the enthusiasts that came could AT LEAST match the revenue that 60-70,000 Mr & Mrs J Blogg’s and family brings in, If you could, I am sure that FFoT would be the first to line it ONLY with railway stalls, model stands, etc etc, but you know, and I know that they couldn’t match it, so market forces rule… and all that!!

      Again, perhaps sad, but no less true. Plus, bringing it to the MASS market, I would argue better ensures that there are then hopefully more of the “new generation” of “Thomas” lovers or …God help us… “Flexity2 lovers” to replace those of us who end up in the great depot in the sky one day and can then carry on this great hobby for others to enjoy. Preclude them and it just eventually dies for lack of new blood.

      And finally, again just going back to the Public Street Fayre V True Tram Event, argument for a moment, if you have any ideas that could turn that particular tide, WITHOUT damaging any revenue, then I’m sure FFoT committee, would be only too happy to hear of it.

  11. Andrew Blood says:

    It is interesting g that ‘Deckerman’ appears to take such exception to comments about Tram Sunday. This event was actively promoted this year with a large banner at Bold Street tram stop in the weeks leading up to the event. The banner said ‘Tram Sunday’! The local paper said ‘Tram Sunday’. The event was first conceived as part of the 1985 Tramway centenary celebrations and called Tram Sunday.
    Of course it needs to change but it now needs to be marketed appropriately. Market this event as Fleetwood’s Summer Festival, Fleetwood’s Summer Fayre, Fleetwood’s Street Festival or whatever and people know what they are getting. Hang a large banner at Bold Street proclaiming Tram Sunday and the confusion sets in. I have been to every event since 1991 and the quality has declined markedly over the last few years – the amount of bric a brac stalls, charity stalls and those selling general tat has increased to the point it is no longer a transport festival. The amount of visiting vehicles has declined (not just the trams) to the point that this event would be far better off changing its focus from transport to just a general street party type event.
    Deckerman takes exception to enthusiasts, claiming they contribute nothing. A vaguely insulting comment? Actually a VERY insulting comment (sorry, will resist the urge to lapse into random capitals!) Market the event properly, admit the transport element is secondary to the charity stalls and other paraphernalia and enthusiasts will stay away. Deckerman will be happy and the locals of Fleetwood can then enjoy buying their tombola tickets and winning their stuffed teddys.
    Sadly, the view that enthusiasts contribute nothing is hardly likely to encourage those to rise to his challenge of suggesting improvement to the event in the future. It seems that enthusiasts or those with an interest in transport, many of whom have contributed their views on this website, have so angered Deckerman that any suggestions for improvement would undoubtedly be met with another lengthy rebuke, complete with exaggerated capitalisation. The decline will no doubt continue in future years as word spreads that this event is no longer something which enthusiasts are welcomed at – after all they eat their own butties! Lets leave Deckerman and his ilk to continue this event in the current format and, meanwhile, take our cameras, our butties and our money and support Blackpool’s heritage service or visit another transport related event where we are more welcome.

    • Deckerman says:

      Andrew.

      Your comments are taken on board and some are certainly valid, but I do feel that I have to take issue with some of what you say.

      Firstly, in 1985 it was actually called Fleetwood Transport Festival, but very quickly became subtitled as “Tram Sunday” by visitors as that was admittedly easier to say.

      If you had read my reply to a separate contributor, Ken Walker if I recall, you would see exactly (note I resisted the temptation to burst into “random” capitals there.. well done me!!), why the committee still has to subtitle it as “Tram Sunday”. But in case you didn’t get to see it, it is that when they tried to drop the TS banner for the very reasons we are discussing here, a relative lack of trams at that time, it caused no end of confusion that there were now 2 separate events. So TS has to stay, but not by the committees choice, but by popular confusion if it doesn’t.
      But that should then in no way lead to anyone having a go at that very hard working voluntary committee putting on such an amazing free event for everyone, enthusiast or not and then them having a go just because it’s no longer loaded with trams, over which the committee has absolutely no control. Surely that should be directed at BTS, if anyone?
      That’s all that I have basically been trying to say here.

      As for saying that enthusiasts ” contribute nothing”, I don’t seem to be able to find where I actually said that. In fact I was very careful to not say that as that would indeed be unfair and untrue, but you must admit that at for example, heritage railways, they are “on the whole” conspicuous by their absence, except at the lineside. Not all of them all the time, but most most of the time. And I am certainly not including the volunteers that actually run the lines/ museums etc themselves, they deserve a medal.. end of!!

      I certainly said that “on the whole”, it was unlikely they would make up the gap if the public no longer came, and I stand by that, but I certainly don’t recall making such a sweeping statement as you accuse me of..

      As for marketing it properly, I would say that the numbers attending fairly underline that as a win personally, with the relative amount of enthusiast based attractions, vehicles, stalls etc far exceeding the actual proportion of the crowds that are enthusiasts. So I would suggest that the people and enthusiasts attending are getting “exactly what it says on the tin”… and then some.

      And as for any enthusiasts comments or suggestions being greeted with a rebuke, I can assure you that that is far from the truth. But equally, I do not wish to be misquoted. But also, it isn’t me they should be directed at, it’s the FFoT committee and again, I can be quite sure that they would be welcomed by them.

      That said, you cannot surely start to make a case that the enthusiast spend can come anywhere close to the public spend at the event, which is all that I stated and you must concede that it is similar at other similar events, railways and museums.

      But that in no way precludes that the committee I am sure, would wish to turn the tide of enthusiasts not attending, but equally, the suggestions to achieve that have to be practical, sensible, achievable and sustainable.

      My whole point has been that it is very easy to complain when the person is not in full possession of the facts as to why things happen and hopefully all I have tried to show is why these things have come about, in the fervent hope that it will then stop the complaints that aren’t justified and then possibly allow a return of more enthusiast led attractions, but still understanding that always, the vast majority of the visitors to the event wouldn’t know a Balloon on a track, from one on a string, and don’t care they don’t either.

      And finally, I ONLY (sorry,, couldn’t resist) resort to capitalisation, when something needs emphasising and because, yes, I am passionate about the event, so it is far from random. And judging by how much I’ve had to write to even get this far, I think it’s looking more and more justified

      • Ken Walker says:

        Here’s a constructive suggestion for you, Deckerman. “when they tried to drop the TS banner for the very reasons we are discussing here, a relative lack of trams at that time, it caused no end of confusion that there were now 2 separate events.”
        So bill it as “Fleetwood Transport Festival / Summer Fayre” or whatever “formerly known as Tram Sunday” and make the distinction that there is only one event and it no longer has anything to do with trams. Surely the committee can engage in adult discussion with the local media etc to explain the dilemma and ask for their co-operation in portraying the event in a way that reflects the actuality. The LRV system adjoining the event is not part of the event.
        As regards the comment regarding railway enthusiasts only appearing at the lineside and not contributing financially, a couple of points. To use myself as an example, I do exactly that sometimes (not very often) when I am near a railway but don’t have the time to make a round trip, but for example, I have paid for life membership of the Swanage Railway, I contribute £40 a month to the LMS Patriot fund to build a replica Patriot class loco ( a project supported by the Royal British Legion), and I suspect quite a few of the “lineside photographers” similarly contribute to various appeals. I contribute what I can afford to the transport preservation scene in general, not just railways: – you can’t judge people purely by what you see on the day, and you can’t tar them all with the same brush. Secondly (and this is only a personal observation made during what I previously admitted to be a brief time within the confines of the event, so pelase don’t shoot me down); I saw quite a few stalls, I saw many people, but I didn’t see many people viewing the contents or buying from the stalls. Similar to lineside photographers, people viewing but not making any financial contribution? ( I suspect that my visit to the previously-mentioned chippy might have contributed more to the Fleetwood economy than quite a few visitors did). You tell me, but it seems a parallel situation to me. The stallholders might well be able to tell a very different story, but I can only comment on what I saw.
        I fully appreciate your comments about the amount of work that yourself and others have put into making the event happen (and I respect that), and your frustration at the way that some people have regarded the results of your efforts. But other people have the right to express their own sincerely held views, as you do yours (which I fully understand and respect). That is my final contribution to this particular debate!

        • Deckerman says:

          They tried that Ken. As previously stated, it didn’t work, but thanks for the suggestion nonetheless. Appreciated..

          Can’t quite see how the LRV upon which the vintage trams get to the event and upon which they operate a heritage service, bring thousands to the event and are of interest to quite a large number of enthusiasts can’t be classed as part of the event? But, again, you are entitled to your opinion.

          And I am totally in agreement that your very worthy efforts towards the railway fraternity are excellent. I am not doubting your commitment for a second. I simply stated that if left solely to the support of enthusiasts, most, if not all, railways, museums and transport events, would either stop dead, or have to be hugely cut, as the vast majority of these places and events are majority funded by non enthusiasts, as is the event in question. That is why the event has to cater for them, but I would argue, it’s transport content is far higher in percentage to all the other things on offer, over the percentage of enthusiasts to public that attend.

          (And I purposely and very carefully didn’t tar them all with same brush ). There are some very commendable enthusiasts out there doing incredible tasks, but a significant number aren’t and that will affect who, events such as this, have to then mostly cater for..

          Finally, I respect your view that you saw only limited take up at stalls etc and you, of course, can only go off what you observed. But the apparently unequaled number of bookings made on the day for next year’s event by stallholders, would certainly suggest that at some point in the day, quite a few people brought some considerable revenue in.

  12. Paul says:

    I have in front of me a PDF of the flyer for this year’s event (presumably officially approved by Deckerman and the rest of the FFoT committee?)
    The top line of text does indeed read “Fleetwood Festival of Transport” BUT immediately underneath in letters 2.5 times the size it says [in uppercase] “TRAM SUNDAY”…
    i.e. greater emphasis is given in official publicity material to the ‘Tram Sunday’ nickname than the official title…

    Reading further. The first three lines of text on the back read:
    “Tram Sunday Attractions Include:
    Classic Cars
    Vintage Trams & Buses
    …”
    So we’re again calling it ‘Tram Sunday’ and Vintage vehicles (including Trams) are given top billing in the publicity material, so does the visitor not have a reasonable expectation that they should form the major part of the event?

    Finally on that flyer – who is the ‘poster girl’ pictured prominently in the centre? It’s a tram, and it’s Stockport 5, now resident at Heaton Park so very unlikely to appear at another FFoT/TS…

    If the committee’s policy is to change the emphasis from it’s origins as a Tram-centered transport event (in 1985 as part of the 100th aniversary of the Blackpool Tramway) to a more general town gala, I have no problem with that, but it doesn’t stack up with their own publicity material which still focuses on the ‘Tramway/Transport’ theme and prominently uses the ‘Tram Sunday’ nickname…

    Paul

    • Deckerman says:

      Yes, they probably do, but as previously stated, unfortunately, due to BTS being the only source of the trams, the event being free and therefore the committee not being able to afford to hire in what BTS don’t send, it will remain less, “trammed” than in previous years. Of course, as I also said, perhaps those wanting more trams could perhaps help sponsor other trams to come and then everybody’s happy.

      I simply think it is unfair to blame the hard working committee for that lapse. Simple as that.

      As for the poster etc, again, I thought I’d covered that sufficiently and why the name has had to stick. Please just read my other responses. .

      And to suggest that an event that almost uniquely does have fully operating trams to it and a couple of hundred classic vehicles, should now drop its transport theme, is perhaps a little unfair..

  13. JONO says:

    By taking photos decker man people give the subject a publicity which will lead to enthusiasts turning up and spending some money. AT the railway i am member of we get good loads of enthusiasts familes turning up to RIDE and buy goods.The tram group you say decker man make lots of money from the enthusiasts by having open days and selling books. AS for the Thomas thing my railway doesn’t do that.

  14. Deckerman says:

    Not arguing with any of that Jono. (Except not sure which ” tram group ” you mention that I’d stated)

    All I was saying is that with the best will in the world, enthusiasts alone (even including their families), won’t fill the coffers that railways/ events etc now need sufficiently to continue. They probably all need the general public too. And FFoT, is simply the same and that’s why it’s had to become a bit more “fayre-like”

    Anyway, I think I’ve covered this fairly conclusively now.

    This next bit isn’t just to Jono, its for everyone who added their comments.

    Bottom line to ALL this is…

    It’s called “Tram Sunday” because it now HAS to be. They tried the alternative. Sadly didn’t work.

    All that I’d say the committee now would like, is that enthusiast’s perhaps just calm down the ” where are the 1985 variety of trams? ” argument a bit, as it is now wearing a bit thin and they do work VERY hard to put on the whole show, which despite some comments, I suggest IS still a transport show (over 170 vehicles attended) and FAR exceeds the amount of transport content in proportion of what percentage of visitors are purely transport enthusiasts . From my time there, they are not against criticism, they just prefer constructive criticism that is also justified and able to then be practicably sorted. That’s not an unreasonable thing to ask is it?

    Its a FREE event, so they simply can’t afford to hire trams off BTS, but equally, anyone who REALLY objects so much, to there being less trams, then the answer is in THEIR hands, or perhaps ..more accurately, their pockets!

    (And don’t forget that even that might not be a solution, as any tram that ventures onto the tramway now must have a transponder and I’m advised that there are only 2 mobile spare ones. So it may be that we now can only ever have 2 ” C fleet ” trams there. So it may well be that what you saw this year is it.. Hopefully not, but whichever it is, would they PLEASE either deal with it, or simply don’t go if they only go to find criticism. Then it’s no longer a problem is it?

    After all, it’s supposed to be a fun, family, free day out that someone else puts on for you and brings to the general public in huge numbers, just what it is that enthusiasts like and like to do and probably does so, more than any other event in the North West, if not the country.

    Can’t we just be happy that’s it’s now back with us and just enjoy it as that?.

    End of thread.. I hope!!

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